BRADFORD, N.H. - All that snow in parts of the Northeast has more than just kids jumping for winter joy. Thank you very much for listening. So now what's going on. Maps of Trapping Take by Town 1994 to 2004. So that that's more or less I think why I'm here and why I got into this in nineteen ninety nine I found a what appeared to be a print of a mountain lion and that was in the Osprey mountains and I thought well OK that's that's a print. Patrick Tate: Exactly I was gonna bring that up juvenile male of. There's a lot of photographs that you can see that it's very clearly a tabby cat that someone has thought was a mountain lion. N.H. Our guests today Patrick Tate New Hampshire Fish and Game Wildlife biologist Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in. I didn't see him online. That's what we're seeing is dispersing mountain lions from the West who are just making their way through. Chartered: 1973 . Something along those lines. We mentioned that one cat that was hit by a car where it has it that it was a male looking for me. John thanks. Sam Evans-Brown: And second the evidence required is is you know pretty pretty tough to gather. So for me as a person who's had the Bobcats right off my grits similar carries sticks to a bobcat The Long Tail obviously very different but those facial markings were overlapping for me. 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. Peter Biello: Ok. We're gonna cue you up and bring into the program listeners in just a moment but I want to ask about the role that Mountain Lions play in the ecosystem we've been talking a lot about mountain lions traveling and being sort of hard to track as they move. Through DNA they approximate area in the United States or North America where I was born. Peter Biello: Mm hmm. And I saw you cat about four feet long from nose to tail come across from the water across the road and just leap over a six foot perimeter fence in a single bound. Because I mean as we've heard in the past 10 minutes like there's there's some disagreement or at least some some vagueness about what an actual mountain lion should appear like in the wild assuming we can even get close enough. However, dispersing western mountain lions have left evidence as close as Connecticut, Massachusetts and New York. Do they travel. The views expressed in this program are those of the individuals and not those of an HP are its board of trustees or its underwriters. Anyways after three weeks I finally found the image on line on a field and stream photo contest and the explanation in the end was the person that set the camera out with another individual and they believed that someone who knew of the camera location saw the similarities put the can't picture on their SD card so it looked like that camera recorded the image that is. Want to report a Mountain Lion sighting in New Hampshire? Think you've seen a mountain lion. We'd be inundated with scouts in the past when newspaper articles have been written about DNA and scouts. That's the real story is they can't follow up on every one of these sightings. And trying to figure out the little pieces to identify him so I bring up the names the differences but the appearances can be confusing for some. Lots of people have stories about them, people have them on their game cameras I mean its kind of a thing. Mountain Lion report and as a biologist for the state that's a situation where if he said to me what did I see. She quotes a biologist in Lyme New Hampshire who who is keeping two mountain lions himself so in the not too distant past in the early nineteen hundreds it was perhaps more common and still in Maine. Peter Biello: Let's talk to Ron and where Ron thanks very much for calling. I have no doubt that there are mountain lion roaming New Hampshire. You saw what you saw. Thanks also to Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England and Sam Evans Brown host of an HP podcast outside in about the natural world and how we use it. Ecosystem Management Consultants of New England, Ask Sam, and recently fielded question about mountain lions, 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020, We also hear excerpts from an interview with, Read about the most recent cougar "sightings". To date, the Department has not received any verifiable evidence (photographic or DNA)of mountain lions existing in New Hampshire. Lions Clubs Int'l Links: LionNet NH Links 2011 -2012 . We did a short segment about mountain lion sightings earlier this year and and after which I was sent a photo and also a video recording that was mostly just audio because it was so dark the photo just a quick reverse Google image search you can put images online and see where else where else they've been posted revealed that the photo had been taking out taken out in Wyoming and has been used you know hundreds of times to claim and the person who sent it to me said it had been taken New Hampshire. I mean so what what is the practical change that it would bring to New Hampshire if any. But on the other side of that coin there is this sense that there have been so many sightings locally and you guys Patrick you might recall the name the Wyndham McCracken she kind of turned herself into a local authority off authorities the right word but she was very dedicated to this. From came from out west they tracked it all the way back to the Black Hills in the Dakotas. Can we go to the site. But if you do if you think you're looking at a wild Puma their tail is very thick and especially in the winter is very thick and ponderous looking. Patrick Tate: Well. They don't know the direction they're going. Here she is talking about how to identify a mountain lion. Peter Biello: I did mention four feet nose to tail would be kind of small for a mountain lion. And it's not really strong. Caller: I cannot recall or see the tail in my in my image of it. But I do think that it's appropriate that a fishing game agency would recognize verifiable proof if they could. I had a resident in New Hampshire tell me a story of a mountain lion in the 1960s where a person who would come summer in New Hampshire and then live in a different part of the country in the winter had a trailer that was housing his mount line. We'll hear more about the mountain lions impact and the role it plays in the ecosystem. Thanks very much. We'll push great photos to the front page. Sue Morse: First and foremost if you have color or if you could see details of color look at the front of the face around the Pumas muzzle the muzzle itself is pure white. Don't miss your chance to win three two thousand dollar gas gift cards at any station of your choice not to mention the grand prize twenty five thousand dollars toward a new car. And when provoked no animal could stand before him elegantly put. So I would put this in the category of sort of like shark attacks right. They create these scrapes where theyre communicating with each other with scent. Sam Evans-Brown: One in fact Helena silver in that sort of tome that Rick van de Poll read from at the beginning is she. It's bigger but bigger and better world. So Michael follows with the question. Pat humans people leave deer carcasses up in trees. Yet this young male traveled about 1,800 miles. Peter Biello: So if they were female mountain lions here they would be more males just because that's what they're looking for. Copyright New Hampshire Fish and Game Department.An official New Hampshire government website. And then just up behind it you know at about 11 o'clock on one side and whatever that would be on the other side it's black. The report came in from a conservation officer. Some argue that it's a leap of faith. Using DNA and physical evidence, state environmental officials said they determined that the animal. Are there other powers that be worried that scary mountain lions will scare off people from camping in New Hampshire. Kyle I think about Rick Tate wants to jump in here. So I did a bunch of research and all the documentation I found was there art are not any pieces of DNA of Eastern online. Updated: 9:53 AM EST Dec 6, 2016. Not one picture of him online while the person meet with us. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Me Im willing to believe its possible that there are some out there. Have a photo. Caller: I have yeah. Peter Biello: We at this e-mailed comment from Michael. Mountain lions ( Puma concolor) are one of the six native species of wild cats in North America. Yes. Peter Biello: Well yeah. Reviewing the evidence, the U.S. Do you get a lot of these these these things that end up being hoaxes. Now again I don't know that there's anything to that. They sent it already. There'd be there'd be all sorts of you know basically a lot of hassle required if that were to happen. I have one that's more elaborate than that. And that's this morning at 10:00 here on NH PR. And so. Administrative Links. I just don't understand the mechanism for how that would happen. So here in New Hampshire when a person turns in something that the Department believes is possible mountain lion and believes it should be investigated further. Mark Elbroch doesnt think so. Patrick Tate: So I just got to throw a little interesting side note in this. Give today. Deer Bear Moose Grey Wolf Coyote Foxes Fisher Mountain Lion NH Wildlife History. So this whole illegal pet trade black market pro trade thing does does exist in a situation like that can happen. He said matter of fact I do. But you won't find evidence of their existence in paw prints in the snow or a deer carcass in a tree. Second when I when they did forward it from Wyoming to to Michigan you know this was coming right from sample 18 and 19 had no remarkable differences from known mountain lions from Michigan or Wyoming. Right. Patrick Tate: I've had hunters hang deer carcasses forbidding wildlife entries. I really really enjoyed listening to this program so thank you all very much. The book MAMMAL TRACKS & SIGN by Mark Elbroch has pictures of mountain lion scat found at a multiple beaver kill. Peter Biello: What about the idea of tourism like us leaving aside the fact that it is not on the Endangered Species Act is it. And those are not the same things. We live around Cold Springs Campground and it was undeniably a mountain lion. I just saw the head and the tail that was leaving. NH Fish and Game Wildlife Biologist Patrick Tate reports that so far, mountain lion reports accompanied byphotographs have been misidentified bobcats or housecats, or pictures of mountain lions taken from the Internet and reported as being recorded in New Hampshire. The Connecticut Mountain Lion is the best documented wild Mountain Lion in New England. I don't know if she still is. Well I can't tell you what you saw. Well they are the same. So what I'm getting back is the verifying and confirming of evidence what that was not there. Peter Biello: And then it ran away okay. Peter Biello: Well Karl Jarvis a former reporter for The King's son Nile thank you very much for for calling in and sharing your perspective and to his point Patrick T. I mean yes we haven't met the scientific burden of proof here in New Hampshire as far as physical evidence is is concerned but is there room at Fish and Game For A kind of an informal nod to all of the people who have somehow convinced themselves and possibly some others that yeah there may be occasional sightings here. Deer Bear Moose Wolves Fisher Mountain Lions. They kill big animals. They are the same thing. The nonbelievers are going to say Show us your evidence and show us prove this to us. And that the Florida panther was more closely related to the eastern outline than the western mountain lion was. 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7. And so maybe before I go to you recommend I ask you Patrick Tate is the standard too high. I think that you probably are. Id like to hazard the explanation that we really, really want to see a mountain lion. It's not an emerging endangered species no work no there are there are populations in specific states so the Florida panther is is an endangered species that sub population is in fact listed under the Endangered Species Act. It traveled all the way from from you know Minnesota to New York without being so seen Patrick take. Peter Biello: Rick I believe you did mention that that they do leave carcasses up in the tree from time to time but are there any other species known in New Hampshire to do this on a regular basis. And just one more note about this danger question when even when you look at the states that have extended populations stable populations of mountain lions attacks are relatively rare. Incredible sighting and I called him the fish and game and they immediately sent me to a website to look at all the bobcat pictures. Peter Biello: They make great mascots at least. Sam Evans-Brown: Pretty well I was going to say it is nice to hear about how to identify the facial markings but probably I'd being a to identify the tracks is probably the more useful useful tool that one can have in their tool box. There are corollaries in other states. But but I've also seen it cited the opposite way that look they're very secretive. And so I just wanted to share my share my experience with you guys and it was pretty awesome to see if you get to see one albeit it was in the brush. For all the men out there that don't realize it. Sunny today high temperatures low to mid 80s it'll be clear tonight overnight lows in the 50s for tomorrow sunshine with high temperatures mid to upper 80s. Mike thanks for your call. So. So you know until I found those two scats I didn't think that mountain lions were here in the east. There was no sign of it. He played a pivotal role and he battled for recognition. Absolutely there are a lot of folks out there who for some reason need to create something that raises a stir and gets the attention of the media etc.. So I think the point that I just want to get across is that there is a very strong sense this here in the and not region that there is that there is some sort of mountain lion population how large it is how extensive it is. From involving members in projects as local as cleaning up an area park or as far-reaching as bringing sight to the world's blind, Lions clubs have always . It's unfortunate that that kind of thing happens as often as it does. However the scarring on the trees did not and the angles were off. Rick van de Poll: Oh yeah absolutely. Thank you very much for that story really appreciate it. That's why we always go back to the physical evidence to support what they're reporting. New Hampshire Fish and Game Department says there's no proof. I've collected scat samples I've got several in my collection. I was at the Sentinel as a reporter there for about four years and during that time I probably wrote close to a half dozen stories or so on this topic including a lengthy feature at one point that in which I spoke to several people from around the banana region claimed to have seen mountain lions that at one time or another. Patrick Tate: My line being a large predator a cat watch ambush his prey animal that hasn't been. Fish and Game looked into the labs to have them confirm the information in the reports which the labs did not. Peter Biello: And Carl before you continue I think Patrick Tate just give me a second. And so far we have not had any positive mark lion scats or any DNA. Rick van de Poll: Well education is the real important thrust of of what all of us do as biologists and Game Managers and to make sure that a things like what Sam was saying that in spite of what you believe the mountain lions will not eat your children they will not steal your pets from your backyard and they will not necessarily be seen by you unless you're extremely lucky. Yeah I did. For over 38 years the Saddleback Mountain Lions have offered people a chance to give back to their community. And I think this is a really interesting story for a couple of reasons one is that it proves what Pat was saying which that basically from New York state where its traces was really picked up on a game camera around Lake George all the way down to Connecticut there was numerous. Rick van de Poll: Well I didn't. Pat what do you think the mystique of the mountain lion. And I I have this great text history of New Hampshire game and fir bears and I think by Helen Silver who used to work for fish and game and she sort of I kind eyes this animal in one of the quotes from 1892 stating that the catamaran was the most ferocious of all the wild beasts of New Hampshire his great size strength and agility of movement together with his formidable weapons rendered him the terror both of man and beast. Caller: Yeah. Patrick Tate: I've from all the situations I've read and learned about wildlife. And what was really remarkable about the whole thing was I was maybe a half mile down on all buildings. You know interactions are pretty unusual. I think as Pat was saying you know 35 to 50 pounds on a male be reasonable range whereas mountain lions you're up to 100 110 maybe even 130 pounds on a big male. You know I'm like seriously I can't get a picture of the thing but what it what it is. I don't see the hoaxes anymore at that level. Give us a call if you have a question or comments or story about perhaps seeing a mountain lion here in New Hampshire. And I was probably about a half a mile from downtown all village on the right. 10 things to do in NH this weekend: Dartmouth Dance, Hamilton De Holanda & more, Turkish restaurant in the Upper Valley aims to help those affected by recent earthquakes, RFK Jr. tells NH crowd hes considering a presidential run, Epping woman pleads guilty to threatening Michigan election official in 2020. In my New Hampshire career I have written several, and seen at least 20, stories along the lines of "local person thinks they saw a mountain lion but there's no actual evidence aside from. It is also known as cougar, panther, mountain lion, and puma, though catamount is the preferred regional vernacular. Rick your thoughts. Peter Biello: Hmm. I live pretty much on the town line of Greenfield just a couple of miles down in the Greenfield. Patrick Tate: So one thing I'd say is DNA would definitely identify an animal animal's Mark line or not. They get a lot of media attention but compared to the the amount of times that a mountain lion could attack a person but doesn't because they don't typically view us as prey. I've seen him in the woods and that was not a bobcat but I was looking at. So hard to know hard to refute if there's no interest in making up a story which many people of course do then I would respond the same way as Pat did. Rick shaking his head so Rick now correct me please. So I've been convinced the whole time that I saw a big cougar plume or whatever you want to call it standing there in the road in Greenfield. Having not found any evidence is not the same as saying there are no mountain lions, its the same as saying we dont know. And maybe it's a no holds barred nostalgia for a better world a wild or Fuller world not a world that's constrained by our boundaries and our taxes and our highways. The species that once inhabited the Northeast, known as the eastern mountain lion, is now extinct. Listeners give us a call if you'd like. We rely on readers like you to support the local, national, and international coverage on this website. 1957. John Holt's ideas were at first dismissed but he refused to be silent. BUT THAT SAID, Id love to be proven wrong. You're on the air. So the whole media hype about how scary mountain lions are should should go away immediately and that would be that I think the major thrust of educating folks about these casualties vs.. Sam Evans-Brown: Sam go ahead. So. Mountain lions when they show up they leave evidence. One was in Shelton. Thank you for visiting the New Hampshire Fish and Game Department website. Which brings us to the next question, what are the odds that some of these reported sightings (which, when I posted about this on twitter, I immediately started to get as well) are actually people seeing a mountain lion? But also I think it proves the opposite point which is that sometimes they're pretty secretive because all the way from Minnesota where the where was the first time was picked up on a game camera to New York. Mountain Lions in New Hampshire-Fact or Fiction. And Rick van de Poll naturalist and founder of ecosystem management consultants of New England. So I think in that story there's there's something for the believers and the nonbelievers and I and you know Mark L. Brock is who is a gentleman with the cougar Network told me this story is evidence that that if they were here we would know about it. Rick van de Poll: 80 90. There's just one subspecies of North American mountain lion. Patrick Tate: And there's one other way to model that is the same animal. So I want to start the program with a comment from someone who is not in the studio with us today. So take care of this problem. HOLDERNESS, N.H. (AP) Two of the known mountain lions in New Hampshire have spent their 15 years in close proximity to humans. This is a machine-generated transcript, and may contain errors. What's interesting about Bobcats is here in the Northeast we have some very large bobcats. Have you heard stories do you have questions about the mountain line. Really appreciate it. So when we hear mountain lion there's also cougar there's wild cat there's Bobcat which is not a mountain lion maybe Patrick could you sort of spell out the different terms which are synonymous and which are completely different animals. So so in 2011 a mountain lion was killed in a car accident in Connecticut a car hit a mountain lion and killed it. Tonight, Sean McDonald investigates,. Peter Biello: And that will make identification for a layperson rather difficult. We discuss what residents may have been seeing and what breeding mountain lion pairs would mean for our ecosystem. About Lions. New Hampshire Public Radio | But you've done some reporting on this. Sam Evans-Brown: So Tim so this cat's been been referenced a couple of times I think we should talk about it specifically lay the whole story out for folks who haven't heard the story because it's actually I think really indicative of a lot of stuff for talking about. NHPR is nonprofit and independent. And because you know things flow downhill and I was pushed to go investigate it more and met with the individual two or three times and there was a bunch of inconsistencies about the photograph. I'm sorry go ahead you're on the air. I just want to tell you a story that I read. Is there something particularly hospitable about New Hampshire Forests that make them want to come here. Michael Brindley is our program manager our producers our Jessica Hunt and Christina Phillips and our theme music was composed by Bob Lord. I came to a stop and it was and I've seen a lot of bobcats in my time and I just came to a stop it was just sort of confused about what I was seeing. Join as a $8 per month sustainer and get our brand-new owl umbrella! Patrick Tate: So I'm not sure what subspecies of cat they're using to differentiate by those markings but once she was describing the White other face in the black. It was really muscular looking cat I mean is that like a side angle to me. Peter Biello: Give us a call 1 800 8 9 2 6 4 7 7 you can also send us an email exchange at an HP morgue. So for our scientists to do the lumping and whatnot. And still the the folks there did weren't able to come up with it with 100 percent certainty what deposited that scat. Peter Biello: So a little bit of nostalgia maybe for it for a better world embodied in the mountain lion. Support for an age PR comes from you our listeners. And they were using all the habitat. So try to take photographs if you see something like this. So here we have you know a very qualified biologist who who found a print took a plaster cast found a scat send it to a university. So it is possible to see male Mountain lions roam into the northeast - there was one hit by a car in CT a number of years back - but we don't have a breeding population of Mountain lions in New England. Peter Biello: Oh okay. It was not a bobcat. I mean that so many of them are false sightings we. Sam Evans-Brown: Well and I think and the last takeaway here is everyone I think probably agrees that any possible sightings that have been seen.
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